Karen Foley
Lynn Raye Harris
Ellen Hartman
Diana Holquist
Samantha Hunter
Shirley Jump
Dee Tenorio
Jeannie Watt
Print Books, E-Books, Audio Books and. . .the Other Kind
What other kind, you might be wondering? I'm talking about the black-sheep of the publishing industry, self-published books. It's always been commonly held that people who had to publish their own books, or pay someone to publish their stories, must not be very good at what they did. From what I read lately, that's changing.
Two articles in the Feb 2009 issue of The Writer talked to authors who were self-publishing, or rather, using a paid publishing service to get their books out, and The Writer has run several issues on the topic before. I never paid much attention, but as times have become more difficult and writers are hitting more publishing walls, I see the topic arising on author loops and industry boards. It got me thinking.
What used to be generally lumped under the label "vanity publishing" is now taking on new life as authors who write specialized books, such as the travel guides written by Bill Sullivan, featured in the article I read, seek better publishing venues for their work. For books like Sullivan's, it actually makes more sense to self-publish. Mr. Sullivan also made over 100K last year on his travel/hiking guides, which benefit from being self-published because he can control when books are printed and make changes up to the very last minute. When he went through a New York publisher, his books were often outdated by the time they hit the shelf, as local travel/hiking info often changed by the time the books were out. The new self-publishing service offers everything that regular pubs do -- editing, art, printing, marketing, distribution -- they do get you into all the majors, the bricks and mortar stores, and the online stores, Ingrams, etc. From one I looked at, it seems they claim about 80% for production costs, as opposed to regular pubs claiming 92-94%.
These publishing services also don't seem to be geared toward mass market fiction writers. They charge too much for individual books, though the perks are that authors control the process and retain all rights. Still, I don't see many readers paying 13.95-16.95 for a romance or mystery novel, which at least as far as my research went, is the base retail price for the books they publish. If you have a non-fiction book, or books aimed at specialized groups (such as the Skiing books written by Allen Smith, also featured in The Writer), a reputable publishing service can make all the sense in the world.
So where does that leave fiction writers? I have found a few fiction writers, mostly in the mystery genre, who self-published their books, or were published by very small presses, and after one or two books, they were picked up and repackaged by big publishing houses. Still, when you think about it, all that changed was the packaging?
There is one author I found who uses a publishing service for her books, and she's doing pretty well, from what I can see -- her Amazon reviews are very good. I may try to contact her and see if she'll come chat with us about it. People are paying $16.95 for her books -- are the rest of us undervaluing ourselves? She also seems to be having a heck of a lot of fun.
Let's face it, a lot of the stigma facing self-published books also faced e-pubs, many of which have now proved themselves in spades. I suspect self-publishing is on a similar trajectory. Things are getting tough out in the market, and even when things are good, there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get a book on the shelf, and in the end, your basic romance novel, selling at an average of 3.99, will garner around 200,000+ for the publisher (roughly -- I have no idea what the retail cuts are), and about 14,000 for the writer (usually distributed over five years, so it breaks down to much less, then subtract agent fees for some, expenses, and taxes. The average net profit on a romance novel that sells fairly well, for an author, is probably around $8-10K, again, broken down over 5 years). That's assuming a sell through of about 60,000 copies.
I'm not saying this isn't fair -- publishers are huge businesses and have a ton of overhead, and it takes a lot to get a book on the shelf, but the article on self-pubbing got me thinking.
One of the obstacles, so authors have discussed on threads, is marketing -- how do we get our books out there, and reach as many people as the big houses do? Interestingly, in a way, we don't have to, as the math shows.
If I sold my own books, just posted them on a website in basic format for 3.99, eliminating production altogether, I would only need to make about 3500 sales to make the same money as I make at 6%. If I made only 5000 sales (compared to the 60,000 I need with a publishing house), I would make more money on a book than I have ever made. I would be able to deliver stories faster, and I would have control over my writing. I could take risks, experiment with new stories that publishers don't want. I would be able to work directly for the reader. The book would never go out of print, and I would own all of the rights. Of course, that assumes I could find 3500-5000 people who would find and download the book. I could Kindle the book myself, as well. Maybe it would be worth it to invest in the publishing service after a point, to get print copies in the store, but I wonder.
What's lost? Well, on the reader side, primarily the packaging. No covers, no fancy packaging -- you would have to just download a PDF or Word file, bare bones, and read the story after you printed it out, or on your PDA or computer. Are covers all that important? Isn't it the story in between that counts?
Readers could save a lot on shipping costs, and if you don't keep every single book, it's a lot easier to shred and recycle 150 pages or so of printer paper than it is a book. If you don't care about the fancy packaging, it could be a good deal -- and you could always go to Kinkos and have the thing bound if you wanted.
Publishers might say readers are getting substandard books because authors wouldn't be edited (many authors would put up a cheer for this fact, though), but if you are selling those 5,000 copies, you can afford to hire your own indy editor, no problem. Besides, I hear left and right from readers who have noticed bad editing in professionally published books, right? My books go through several rounds of editing, and yet I have often found errors in the final manuscripts, etc.
So, is it feasible? Would you, as a reader, buy a book that an author offered up on their own in this manner? And authors, have you thought about it? I'm just curious. In this new economic climate, as self-publishing appears to be on the rise, would you buy a self-published book from an author you know, or one who looks interesting, or does the old stigma still stick? Authors, could you do it? What are the gains/losses, as you see it?
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Great post!
Wow, Sam. So much here, I don't know where to start.
First, is there a reason you're keeping that self-pubbed author's name a secret? I'd love to check out her/his stuff.
Second, everyone always looks to the music industry when looking for a new model, and in the music industry, the major labels DIDN'T go away, and except for some huge names who could do it themselves, the money is still, ultimately, with the labels. I don't know if this will be the same in publishing (who does?), but it looks to me like a Steven King can go w/o his publisher, but not many others have real success. (And did he, really...?)
And what is real success? To me, this is the issue. My editor is brilliant. I get SO much better because of her. My agent is brilliant. She teaches me so much w/ every book she reads of mine. I'm sitting here w/ my copyedited manuscript, and it's worth it's weight in gold, with all the stylistic and grammar errors she finds. I would pay my publisher for this insight into how to make my work better--but instead they pay me. I like this model.
So, I might make less from my books, but in the end, I don't want to sell 5-6K copies. I want to be good, really good: good enough to sell 5-600K copies. I know that might sound nuts, but I like to think big. I'm not in this to be okay, to get by, to sell some books. I'm in this to write a masterpiece--and that I can't do on my own. It's too hard. I need teachers and mentors and those people---the good ones--deserve to be paid.
That's why I think that fiction publishing won't go self-pubbed.
But who knows? Maybe it's just that I don't want it to go that way...
Diana Holquist
http://dianaholquist.com
Great post back!
I always know you guys will make me think. ;)
First, of course we want to write the best books, always -- I would hope that any book, even a self-pubbed one, would be the best we can write, not just okay. I could never settle for okay on any score. And absolutely, the editors we work with, and the agents, are fantastic. I've learned so much in the past few years.
But I also worked with an indy editor last year on my mystery, and it was great! I did pay her (and I was hoping to get her to come talk on the blog about being an indy editor), so, just saying, there are options to the corporate model that don't have to compromise quality or our interactions with people who help us get better. ;) I always think of how overworked editors are, too -- they are lambasted. They could probably do well on their own, too! Some are trying it, actually. Then, there are always classes, teachers, etc.
Also, I'm not sure good = sales numbers, cynical as that may be. Lots of wonderful authors probably never sell through, or even sell, because good isn't always the criteria, sadly. Though I would love to see those numbers in the 500-600K range, too, LOL! That would be nice. I try to think big, but in some cases, I also try to think real, or practical, in terms of what I need to make a living. Can you tell I did quarterly taxes in the same weekend I read that The Writer article?? LOL
But seriously, I don't think quality has to be compromised, at least, not of the book. The packaging is a lot of what people pay for, not the story and editing, really. I'm willing to bet, though I don't know for sure, that the bulk of the money made from a book doesn't go to "talent," whether editors or writers, art, etc but to things like printing (which is very expensive) and distribution, real estate (offices) etc.
Sam
Oh, and
I didn't want to hold that author up as an example until I talk to her on email, and see if she wants to come on and talk about her own experience -- the other two authors were mentioned in The Writer, so I felt okay referring to them, but I didn't want to hold up an author as an example of something unless they knew I was doing it. ;) Hopefully she will come chat with us.
Sam
Timely post on self-publishing
Thank you for an informative post. As someone who chose to self-publish under my own small imprint, I found your post timely and fair. I chose to buy my own ISBN's, hire a professional to format my book for the printer and also create a cover, on which I've received countless compliments. I chose not to use a company that does the whole package, but work on the project myself after extensive research. It is a personal choice and up to the author how much you want to get involved in the publishing process. And I might add, it did not come anywhere near breaking me financially. My book is available in print and also an an ebook. I am currently in the process of offering it in audio. It has been a time consuming process, but for me it has also been a labor of love. Having been published in the past by a major romance publisher, I do understand the basics of what happens in today's market once a book is accepted for publication by traditional publishers.
In doing my own book, I chose the venue, the market, and I have created my own niche in the market of grief, loss and bereavement, based upon my life experience and my articles. There are so many valuable books out there that people are choosing to self-publish, and in my opinion we will see an increase in this area. Many of these books are getting notice, winning top-notch awards and gathering steam with notable reviews.
Marketing is still the major component here, but with the internet it's an ever-changing and a constant wealth of new opportunities, especially with social marketing opportunities. I believe the internet levels the playing field and the savvy self-publisher can garner notice in their own corner of the market, while enjoying full control of where, how and when the book is produced. For me, this is a win-win situation.
A Journey Well Taken: Life After Loss by Elaine Williams, a widow's journey through loss, grief and renewal. http://www.ajourneywelltaken.com
Midwest Book Reviews 5 Stars
Finalist USA Book News 2008 Best Book Awards
Elaine, Welcome!
I am so glad you responded! This is the kind of first person experience that is so interesting to hear about. (I am also glad you think I gave a fair perspective -- I know it's a touchy topic, and I don't want to offend anyone or say one thing is better than the other, but to just think things through.)
Your book looks wonderful, and I am so impressed with the Amazon reviews, awards, and the line-up of appearances and so-forth that you have on your website. It does seem to be that self-pubbing does lend itself very strongly to non-fiction, as I've noticed.
Bill Sullivan noted that if to publish your own books, you have to really be your own publicist in a big way. We all do that to some extent, anyway, but maybe it needs to be more so when you strike out on your own -- have you found that?
What I drew from his comments was that he formed more personal relationships with booksellers, and found some very creative outlets for selling books that wouldn't be the normal retail outlet. My impression was that he enjoyed these relationships very much, and felt like the sellers really knew him, and his books. Have you found the same?
Sam
Welcome
Hi Sam: Thank you.
My book came out in June, and the marketing and publicity is an ongoing process. I have also sought out radio interviews and social marketing blogs and networks, and this seems to have helped tremendously. But what I really found offered credibility and helped with my marketing was writing articles of my experiences and syndicating them on sites such as ezinearticles.com and ideamarketers.com, among others. My articles are quite a few places on the net.
I also have several blogs on Ning.com sites related to loss, grief, widows, etc., but also blogger and wordpress. I've found that writing the articles really created a big exposure for my topic and name. I found a Niche for my book, not only in bereavement websites but my articles have been requested on women's lifestyle magazine sites and even dating sites. Dating after loss of a Spouse. A Widow's Many Firsts...
I've created a relationship with the people in various areas of this niche. I'm still working on my marketing plan, and I expect this will change and evolve over the next year.
elaine
I'm also curious
For Elaine, and any other self-pubs who come by, how do you set a price point? I think it's generally true that people undersell themselves, and the big pubs can afford lower prices because they sell on volume, but I can never figure how you set a price for yourself if you self-pub? I know the services base it on how much they need for production, and then to supply royalties in various amounts, but like we often see on The Apprentice *G* setting price is such a huge factor...
Sam
Pricing Self published books
In deciding on a price, I looked at a lot of books in the grief and bereavement area. I looked at size, page count and content. It is difficult to try and compete against traditional publishers in this area, however, I chose a price that I felt would be fair without overpricing the book. My whole intent in writing this book was to get it out to women and others who needed to read it. Of course I make more selling it from my website, but offering it on places like Amazon and Barnes and Noble opens it to a wider audience, so therefore I had to price it taking into account their substantial commission. Also, the company that I used, www.booksjustbooks.com, who professionally created my cover, gave me some input on price also.
elaine
A Journey Well Taken: Life After Loss by Elaine Williams, a widow's journey through loss, grief and renewal. http://www.ajourneywelltaken.com
Treasure Trove of Info!
Elaine, I am fascinated with your experience with this. Feel free to email me if you'd like a guest spot here to talk more about your book, and your experiences with self-publishing, etc.
Looking forward to hearing more,
Sam
Just found this -- and Diana was talking about hitting it big...
Check it out...talk about commitment!
"Self-publishing was once a consolation prize for a pipe-dreamer. But today it's possible for writers such as Christopher Paolini, author of the fantasy blockbuster "Eragon," Richard Paul Evans, author of the bestseller "The Christmas Box," and Zane, whose first three novels were self-published, to bypass publishers, then score lucrative contracts with them once their books are proved."
The Lace Reader
The exceptions prove the point...or not...?
The Eragon example is interesting, as this kid (I think he was 17 at the time? I don't have time to re-read the article...) was on the road, self-selling like mad, and he happened to get his book in front of the son of a major publisher, who liked it. Wow. How likely is that?
It's one of those great stories of hard work and incredible luck that I would never want to bet my career on--the luck part is too tricky.
Just my personality...
Diana Holquist
http://dianaholquist.com
Well,
I wasn't trying to prove anything, LOL, but just provide food for thought. I agree with you in part, and like I said below, would rather work with a traditional pub if its possible, but that's no career guarantee, either -- traditional pubs drop authors all the time for low numbers, etc. It's always about luck and timing to some degree, no matter what.
I sold my first book -- literally the first book I ever wrote, which people said rarely happens, too -- but I don't want to think about the ones I've had rejected since then, or, worse, that the market dictates how my career will go more than my writing does.
It's all tricky, is what I've learned. :) There are never any guarantees, I guess. Luck is always a factor. I have heard so many horror stories from authors who were selling well, then their line closed or they were passed to a different editor who didn't like their work, or who back-burnered them... It's just the nature of it all, I guess.
Sam
There is a caveat...
though, in that the prospect of getting 5-6k in sales is already fairly phenomenal a number. I don't mean to be negative, of course, just this is what I thought of.
My first book came out with an ePub in 2006. In the nearly three years, it has sold somewhere around...generous estimate is 2500 copies, in both e and print formats. (Yup, it's that 12 dollar style, tall book from Lightning Source) Three YEARS. And that's with fairly high visibility at the time and lots of favorable reviews, including being on Amazon, B&N for order online, listed with Ingrams and physically in stock in Borders. Plus, I PR'd my tail off. I've had five books since that haven't hit that number yet. (Ever optimistic, though, lol)
Basically, the success stories are great. But it requires a hell of a lot of dedication and hoofing it to get the book to sell. And that was with an ePub. Without a publisher at all, you're looking at even more work.
Not to say it can't be worth it, but one should be aware. Much like selling records out of the back of your car, YOU have to make something happen and get people to notice. :)
:)
Dee
I think you're right
I don't think this is negative, I think it's true -- and I am seeing that people who basically create their own little publishing company seem to see more success than if you use one of the services, depending, but it takes an awful lot of investment. And yes, 5000 is a lot! Like with everything, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it. :)
But, I always think it's worth investigating alternatives and different paths to where we want to go... and where things may not pay off in one way, they may pay off in others... A lot of people told me they loved epubs not because of the money or royalties, but because of the freedom they felt in their writing -- they could follow their own instincts more, and didn't feel so boxed in (and of course, many of them found considerable success with epubs, and with trad pubs). So... maybe the best idea is to just never get stuck on one approach to things...
Sam
It bears adding..
that BH is a straight Contemporary Romantic Comedy, which is the market many in romance would be grouped in. Not particularly erotic, about category length. And that 12 dollar tag was for print only (didn't want to confuse, lol).
Caveat
I've only self-published non-fiction, and a niche market in the grief area. From what I understand it is quite different than fiction. I've also worked with a PR guy who's been in the business 30 years and he won't work with fiction. He said he only deals with non-fiction because a lot of times you can find a niche where non-fiction works and will sell. There's also exceptions to every rule.
Make no mistake, it is time-intensive when you self publish and market it yourself. It also depends what your timeline is. I made the choice to put the book out there, using professional services for what I felt really mattered, and then doing what I could do to push it the rest of the way. I wasn't planning on dumping a lot of money I don't have, in the process. I also had a two year marketing plan in place before I started. Elaine
A Journey Well Taken: Life After Loss by Elaine Williams, a widow's journey through loss, grief and renewal. http://www.ajourneywelltaken.com
However...
In replies to the caveats...
but what about all the time invested in a book that never sold? I have at least one book that I know is good, it's out there being shopped, but people aren't buying much right now.
What if that book never sees the light of day by traditional methods? Considering not just the time, but the money (research, which included travel, plus independent editing) that I put into it? That's a case where I think indy publishing could work -- even if I ever sold 2500 copies, that's 2500 more than I ever would have, and past that, maybe it would keep the book alive and out there, selling, until the market turns and one of those indy editors might take a second look... right?
Just thinkin'... obviously I would rather it sells straight out, even to a small press, but I think there are times when it's worth thinking about self-pubbing...
Sam
However
So true! I have two romances that I've thought about putting out there as ebooks just to see what happens. I've been told the stories are wonderful, but no buyers. I was published by SSE back in 2001, before life hit me with some curves, but since then the stories have been rejected in almost every corner of the US. lol. So how long do you keep on trying to sell them? Again, individual choices and decisions....hmm. elaine
Or look at Jennifer Crusie with Bet Me...
Jenny Cruisie, I believe, wrote Bet Me, never sold it, kept writing other stuff like mad and crazy, got famous, then got Bet Me pubbed for the big bucks in hard cover w/ a major NY house, and won every award on the block.
That's my kind of business model.
If it were me, I'd hold an unsold manuscript. I just don't think that the money/exposure from self-pubbing/e-pubbing is worth it. How hard are you going to work to sell those 2,500 copies? Isn't that time better spent writing and honing your craft? And this, in a nutshell, I think is the problem w/ self-publishing. It takes too much time and energy away from the writing.
Just my humble opinion.
Diana Holquist
http://dianaholquist.com
The same can be said about any promo, right?
I know one of my editors told me once they would much rather that writers stayed home to write rather than going to conferences. ;) But then writers tell me how much conferences help them.
And there are enough cases of writers who sold through small or self press and then were picked up, and they didn't make it big, but they stayed out there. You keep writing in the meanwhile... you don't stop, but you can probably do both, the same way we spend some time on promo and still write...
In many ways, it really would be worth it to me to know that someone got to enjoy that story I wrote.
Sam
I think I am more cynical than you, Diana!
It just occurred to me that I had the same gut response to the Jennie Crusie idea as you do to self-pubs making it big -- it's like with student athletes -- a very small percentage go on to the big leagues, and probably the same is true of writers. People will spend a lifetime honing their craft and never sell as many books as I have been fortunate enough to do already, let alone make it big...
The idea that following JC's model will lead me in her direction, I just don't buy it, any more than you buy self-published authors making it big -- unfortunately, I think both cases require just the right luck, timing, and market conditions, as well as being a good writer.
But I do find all of the discussion and different ideas stimulating! I love it when we can all speak our minds.
Sam
What a fascinating post and
What a fascinating post and comment trail. All I can say is thank you ladies for giving me so much to think about.
Thanks Jeannie
w
I like that, "comment trail" -- hopefully after you mull, you might want to make the path longer. You always bring a fresh POV.
Sam
As a senior on a fixed
As a senior on a fixed incone I could never afford to buy a book that costs $14.95-$16.95 even if it was self published by favorite author.
I would have to rely on a library for the books I read if a lot of authors I read were self published.
I agree Estella
In all honesty, I rarely am willing to pay more than 7.99 for any paperback, and I never pay hardcover prices so paying near hardcover price for a paperback seems ridiculous to me (or for an ebook). Which is, I think, one good reason self-pub fiction is kind of doomed before it even starts... Though again, for non-fiction, it seems to do rather well, but I also can imagine paying $15 for a hiking or boating guide, etc... I wonder why that is, that we value different kinds of writing differently... I don't have an answer! :)
Sam
I happily pay $19.95 for a
I happily pay $19.95 for a reference book, but have a hard time shelling out trade paperback book prices. I do it, but I don't buy nearly as many trades as mass market. My mother and my daughter are both voraciously trade paperback purchasers, however.
Three cheers for libraries
Estella - Were it not for a library, I would not be writing today. I love my library and use it heavily. I don't have the room to store all the books I read or use for my research.
Many of us are on fixed incomes without being on Social Security. If we get a raise at all, it doesn't keep pace with rising costs. We all have to spend our entertainment dollars carefully. That's another reason I love libraries.
Samantha - I gave up buying mass market paperbacks a year ago. I simply cannot read the small print - darn these middle-aged eyes. That means trade paper or hardcover for me - and those options are automatically more expensive. If one really wants to spend money on a book, check out the audio book prices. Yikes!
Hm...
Very interesting, Sam! As a reader, I might buy such a self-published book--it would probably have to be because I had a chance to learn more about it/the author through blog visits, chats, etc. And since it's fairly easy to click-to-buy on the internet, it wouldn't be a deterrent that I couldn't pick it up at Target :) As for quality, I don't have any self-pubbed books to evaluate, but I think that in general, even the smaller presses seem to vary in quality; I imagine it just means that there's more responsibility on the part of the author to make sure her work is truly read for print before printing those several thousand copies. So yes, I'd probably consider buying, but it wouldn't be quite as easy to get my attention as with say a Blaze, where I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting. It'd feel like a little more of a risk, so I'd really expect what I get to be very good or I'd be unlikely to try that author again.
I think that's reasonable
I think that's pretty much what we all would do, I have bought a few ebooks that looked interesting, but if they didn't impress me, I didn't buy any more -- of course, I can say the same of print books. ;) In fact, I have stopped buying several very well known authors who really haven't maintained the quality I expected from them, or sometimes I will loan their books from the library and spend more on a new or upcoming author who really needs the sale.
Sam
Word of Mouth and message boards
Hail to the Redskins!
Lost my post! I was saying that don't forget the reader and word of mouth when marketing. I met you Sam, on adwoff, and bought your book because of that. I probably wouldn't have otherwise. Same with Melanie Anderson, another adwoffer who is now a published author.
I go into major retail outlets and see some of the books that are featured. Some, IMO, aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and are a waste of a tree. Maureen McCormick's biography is worthless. Some of the "literature" that was published as non-fiction, has been proved to be fiction. How the hell did that get published with all the supposed editing?
IMO, I think some of this crap thats been getting published is one of the reasons readers are buying less. If you can get past the crap that's right inside the store and to the great stuff on the shelves, its worth the time and money. But to have Sam Hunter passed over because the publisher thinks more people will buy Maureen McCormick, even though the quality of her book is horrible, is a big gamble.
I can see why more and more are going to self publishing, these "elite" publishers don't really know the reader anymore and think they know better, and thats why sales are declining. For me, I'm buying less, because my TBR pile is big enough, and I need to take time to whittle it down before I buy more.
I've discovered great authors through message boards, Elaine Fox, Sarah Strohmeyer, Lisa Scottoline, and Sherrilyn Kenyon. Book Signings are other places where I met authors, some I've read again, like Judy McCoy, others I haven't--mainly because the books aren't too my taste, but I was glad I gave them a try.
Times are changing, and I may recommend self publishing to a friend who's an inspirational writer. She's Mormon, but writes about Christianity in General. She can't get published by traditional inspirational publishers because she's Mormon and considered "fringe" by some. The Mormon publishers want her to write more towards the Mormon church, and secular romance publishers want more love scenes. Since the h/h are Christian, she'd rather keep them out of bed until marriage. (what she believes). I've read her book, and as a Methodist, I found it uplifting, and enjoyable. I felt that anyone would enjoy it no matter what they believed. While I respect the inspirational publishers and their standards, I hope that she will find someone to publish her work.
Oh, Adwoff!
You made me nostalgic, Teresa! And Mel! I have to find her and have her come on and guest. If you see her, tell her to drop me a note.
We did have a good time on there, that's for sure. :) And thanks for the kind words -- I think we should all outsell McCormick, too! LOL But she has more name value, though that Brady Bunch stuff kind of squicks me out. *G*
But you know, it's all a crapshoot, and believe it or not, the good side of that is that things can change on a dime -- you think you're out, and then bam, something big happens (this must be why I love baseball -- you sit and watch a lot, eat, talk, and then everything goes crazy for 90 seconds... LOL. That's a lot like writing).
But I feel for your friend, and I hope she does find a pub, or consider putting it out there herself. I'm firmly convinced that a lot of the book we write that are rejected are books that readers would have loved... but I supposed I'm biased. ;)
Always good to see you,
Sam
Love the baseball metaphor...
You made my day, Sam. I'm sitting here w/ a proposal and a copyedited manuscript, wondering if it's the bottom of the ninth with two out...or if I'm about to hit a home run.
It is JUST like that every time, isn't it?
Okay, now I can move forward. Thank you.
Diana Holquist
http://dianaholquist.com
Brace yourself for an unpopular and un-PC opinion
I'm going to catch hell for this but I'm nearing my period and I can't seem to keep my opinion to myself on this topic.
Certainly there is a market for self-pubbed books. I believe nonfiction, memoirs, poetry, cookbooks, etc, make great fodder for the self-pub arena BUT coming from someone who worked her ASS off to become a traditionally published author in romantic fiction I take offense to the people who want to circumvent the process simply because they haven't been able to break into the market otherwise. In a nutshell, IMO, what I hear is "I don't care if my book isn't good enough. I'll just buy what I want because I can."
It smacks of this generation's penchant for instant gratification no matter the cost. Have their been success stories with self-pubbed fiction? Of course. Do they have my respect? Grudgingly. But on the whole...I simply don't respect those who don't put in the blood, sweat and tears that is required to make it in this tough biz. As I've said before, getting published is hard. It SHOULD be. I don't want the market to be watered down by substandard writing just so everyone can play on the playground.
Case in point. There is a woman in my town who self-published a children's book. She doesn't explain that she chose to self-publish and those who don't understand the business have no idea that she BOUGHT her own book. (The book is completely inane and ridiculous, BTW. It's little wonder no one in NY wanted to buy it.) Now here's what really pisses me off...she is representing herself to kids and adults alike as someone who worked hard to achieve a goal but that's not the case...unless writing out a check is hard work in her opinion. If that's case I do heavy lifting every week at my local Savemart! She isn't HONEST about her publishing experience and that chaps my hide but I keep my mouth shut because frankly, I don't trust myself to be tactful.
Lately, everywhere I turn, I find whiners who are complaining about how unfair something is...blah, blah, blah. This argument feels no different. Life isn't fair. Not everyone get to play. Sorry. Deal with it.
The end.
I'm sorry if this offends some people. I admit my opinion is unpopular but *shrugs* oh well. Sometimes what is plainly obviously must be said even if no one likes you for it.
Kim
P.S. Normally, I'm quite nice, but this topic is a hot spot for me.
First, I don't think anyone
First, I don't think anyone here is being PC. We're all just having a conversation, and a good one, I believe. I like to try to keep things balanced, respectful, sure, but still honest. Sorry if you saw that as "PC."
The generalization that all self-pubbed books are bad is just a poor argument. It says all books coming from traditional publishers are good, or that all books coming from another venue are bad, which we know is far from true. Obviously, if you look closer, many self-pubs have considerable experience in writing and publishing. The Lace Reader is a great example.
Also, looking at the Amazon reviews on these books, I can't say readers think they all suck, either. And much of what you say was also said about epubs at one time. I think your views are what people conventionally thought about self-publishing, but it does seem to be a changing landscape. This is what initially caught my attention -- and from articles in a pretty prestigious writing magazine, as well.
Also, the assumption that all self-pubbed writers are lazy hacks doesn't hold. It seems like many folks who self-pub often invest more (or at least as much) time, work, and money into their books than traditionally pubbed writers do. Many of the self-pubs have also been pubbed by traditional houses, but chose to self-pub for different reasons. Rebecca York/Ruth Glick, whom you might know as a very successful romantic fiction writer, chose to self-pub her own cookbook.
While there are the hacks and such out there, of course there are, I don't think they will make it in any market, self-pubbed or not. But that is not the whole picture.
I am giving the blog floor to a few self-pubs on Jan 30. I hope people will come by and listen, keep an open mind, and we'll have a great conversation.
Sam
Hi Sam - followed you over here and found this post
and want to chime in my 2c, if you don't mind
You KNOW how much I read, and you know I also have tried to write my own Blazes though I've never submitted anything because I came to the conclusion it was too much like hard work LOL
Would I have gone the self-pubbed route?
Maybe, if DH had offered to finance it but there again it might have been too much hard work
I KNOW writing is hard work, and I have a 28 hour working week that's writing-related as I'm a translator - it's technical writing but there's still some style involved - so extra writing when I come home is really too much like HARD work as opposed to normal boring mindnumbing translation work
So I'm looking at this as a reader
Do I care whether someone's self pubbed, e-pubbed or "ordinary" pubbed
Not a whit when it means I can get my greedy little hands on a book I wanted
Harlequin/Luna cancelled a series when 2 out of 3 of Gail Dayton's books had been published - she found an epub for the 3rd - colour me HAPPY!
I have several favourite authors whose series have been discontinued by their publisher - if they decide to self pub, colour me HAPPY that I can continue the series
Once I have been "hooked" by an author, I want MORE
I'm not saying that I would necessarily pay £50 a book, but if the cost is relatively reasonable and I really want to finish the series and can't get it any other way, well I'm not going to consider the price prohibitive unless it goes WAY over the $20 mark because at that stage the story and knowing how the series ended is FAR more important than the cost of ONE book
So I'll look for sales on other titles, where I can find them
and YES I'm an exception because I'm in a foreign country but it's still the basic economic law of supply and demand - when I have a very limited supply, the internet makes the difference, and ebooks are gradually winning me over. I'm one of the ones who doesn't care about the format when I really want to read the book. I've been known to buy the ebook AND the hardcopy but it's relatively rare. M&B UK have an offer that lets you have both for £1 more than the cost of the print book, but I'm going "why would I want to pay MORE for BOTH when I haven't read it yet?"
As for word of mouth - I'd LOVE to know how big an influence the eharl Challenge blogs and other recommendations have on sales, but don't know how that could be quantified - in this age of lurkers how could anyone tell?
Hope these frank reader reactions help someone, they are of course only one reader's reactions, but I do read quite a lot of books in a year (and that's what's called a talent for understatement LOL)
Hugs
I think you hit the nail on the head
The bottom line is that readers want a good story -- and if they get it through a non-traditional venue, well, to many people it won't matter. In many ways, having different routes to publication and different ways to get books is a good thing, offering up more variety, etc.
Interesting points about what folks in other countries can get as well -- I guess the downside would be that for non-English speakers, self-pubbed authors probably couldn't afford translations, etc.
And you are the most prolific reader I have ever known. I loved your points about finding books like Gail's, and also what's often true is that authors get pigeon-holed, and often the trad house won't let them try something new, take risks. So, how do they overcome that? Seems like now, we have some options.
Options are always a good thing -- I am so happy to see you stop by. :)
Sam
Perhaps...
I don't disagree that being traditionally published doesn't guarantee quality because, you're right, there have been some poorly written books released by well-known, traditional publishers. BUT, in my experience, I've found little to recommend about self-pubbed books that were fiction in nature. In my limited experience, I've found vain, self-important blowhards who were more interested in seeing their name in print rather than doing the actual work to put it there. It is unfortunate that's been my experience but we are the sum of our experiences, are we not?
In the end, it is a personal choice whether or not someone goes that route and I suppose if someone were already traditionally published previously in their chosen genre then that would be a different story if they chose to self-pub for personal reasons but for me, it wasn't the right choice and I might always hold a jaundiced view toward self-publishing no matter how the climate may change in publishing.
Being traditionally published means something to me. It's a source of pride, particularly because I worked so hard to attain it.
I think we all have "hot" buttons and this one just happens to be mine.
Kim
True
Further up in the discussion, we did notice that nonfiction seems to have a higher success rate in self-pub than fiction -- it's interesting to wonder why.
While we may be affected by our experiences, I also think we, as thinking human beings, can consume new information and think past and above experience when we see proof to the contrary. ;) We also can maintain some kind of thoughtful objectivity or give benefit of doubt, which as a journalist, I know you have experience in.
But believe me, I know about hot buttons -- we all have those, and you're entitled to yours. There's great value in just saying what you think, because it's straightforward, and it's also how we can learn and change how we think, but when we do that, we'd better be ready for people to also freely disagree. ;) I appreciate you jumping in, Kim, even if I didn't entirely agree with the tenor of your initial post.
Sam
buying POD and small press books
I probably tend to stay away from them just because my pile of books to read is so huge. On the other hand, one of the most intriguing books I have read was a published on demand book by a local author. My husband was as awe-struck by the book as I was. I do know the author did it mostly to see if he could market the book himself as an experiment. He worked at it a lot. Last I heard, he was going to go a more traditional route.
Personally, I enjoy seeing writers take some risks as much as I like more traditional made-for-mass-consumption books. I think if publishers only stick with the safe books for $$$ then reading will get boring and there won't be the great books that break new ground in literature. On the other hand, I've already got too many books to read and review so it's difficult to know how to separate the intriguing find from the not so intriguing. I guess that's true for traditionally published books too.
I know...
This is a problem across the board. There is just this flood of books, which is wonderful, but it's also a problem in some ways. Not just for readers, but for authors... if our numbers go down, it's not because we're personally not selling enough, it's just that among the choices, everyone's numbers go down because it stands to figure that say, a line like Blaze used to do four books a month. Now they do six, and at six, it only stands to reason that purchases will be diluted to some degree, and individual numbers will go down even though the lines sales may stay the same (I don't know internal numbers, I am just hypothesizing).
I have this very funny memory of when I was a new Blaze author, being all "YAY! Blaze is going to six books a month!" LOL because I took this as a success for the line, which I guess it is, more books, more variety, but I didn't understand at the time what this meant for me as an author -- less sales, lower royalties, etc. I remember a resounding silence to my cheers, and now I realize the other authors must have thought I had my head up my arse.
Sam